Is AI a Threat IN Podcasting?

Dave Jackson [00:00:00]:

Is AI a threat in podcasting?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:00:03]:

This is The Future of Podcasting, where we ponder what awaits the podcasters of today. From the School of Podcasting, here's Dave Jackson. And from the Audacity to podcast, here's Daniel J. Lewis.

Dave Jackson [00:00:18]:

Daniel, future of podcasting. Episode 29 is AI. We're going to finally just do an episode about AI. Is it a threat in podcasting? And you throw this topic out and I was like, well, I want to do this one because I'm dying to hear your answer.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:00:33]:

Yeah, I was very particular about the preposition used. I don't think that AI is a threat to podcasting. Like, AI is not going to kill podcasting. It's going to take a lot to.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:00:47]:

Kill podcasting, even though Spotify is trying.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:00:52]:

But AI, I do think AI is a threat within podcasting depending on how it's used. Because like almost anything, it could be used for good or it can be used for evil.

Dave Jackson [00:01:07]:

Yeah. What's the line with great? It's the Spider Man one.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:01:12]:

With great power comes great responsibility.

Dave Jackson [00:01:15]:

That's it. Well, that's true. And let's see, we've been recording for a minute and 5 seconds. I think another AI tool has probably been released since we started because if you wait, it's like every 20 seconds, like, oh, what's this one do? You upload your audio and it creates a transcript and then spits out a bunch of stuff.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:01:38]:

The future It's a Wonderful Life remake.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:01:41]:

Will be look, daddy Teacher says every time a bell rings, a new AI product launches on AppSumo.

Dave Jackson [00:01:50]:

That's about it, my friend. And who names their kid Zusu? But that's a whole other podcast. So the thing I always think is silly is where people go. Well, kind of like I talked about in the last episode where Todd said people are just going to type in a subject. It's going to spit out a script. The script will be thrown into some sort of voice reading tool which will then somehow post it through Alphonic or some other tool and then presto instant podcast. And that I don't see as a threat. I see it as a threat to the end.

Dave Jackson [00:02:25]:

I could see where that could definitely happen. I know there are a few podcasts I've heard of that are entirely AI generated the artwork, everything is made somehow through AI. And everyone I know that has gone to check out those types of shows all say the same thing they're horrible. So what are you thinking in terms of where it might be a threat in podcasting?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:02:50]:

Well, it kind of goes to the idea of how much do we feel.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:02:57]:

Threatened or is there a threat to having really bad content existing?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:03:04]:

Because that is the potential of generative.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:03:08]:

AI is getting really bad stuff. Like, I've been in some different AI groups in Facebook, and I've seen some people, like raving about tools. And it was a big deal. When I think it was Adobe Stock Photo or maybe Getty or Istock, one of these stock photography services, then changed their terms and said that, yes, you.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:03:28]:

Can upload AI generated art and sell.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:03:32]:

It as a stock photography image.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:03:36]:

And when I saw some of the things that people were saying, look, this was accepted, and I've already sold a.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:03:41]:

Copy of this and stuff, that stuff.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:03:43]:

I look at it and suddenly I realize, oh, no, someone actually bought this and is using this. I see all of these problems, and.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:03:54]:

I'm not talking about the classic. One of some of these AI image generators cannot do fingers very well.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:01]:

Now, some of them are really good.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:03]:

And that's the thing. If you're just using like, straight dolly or stable diffusion, which are pretty much the most popular right now for image generation, they're not good with fingers as it is. But if you start adding in models that are built on top of these things, that's where some of this stuff.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:19]:

Can get really good.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:21]:

Like Mid Journey is basically built on top of some of these other technologies. I believe I might be incorrect there, but like, Leonardo is another one, and.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:32]:

Some of these can make images in completely different styles.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:37]:

Like, I even found an AI generator that it's pretty cool. An image generation tool, a model that.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:44]:

It'S designed to give you a black and white icon.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:47]:

It's not in vector format, but you can very easily have it converted to vector because it's only black and white and it's a basic shape with nice sharp edges.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:04:56]:

But all of these things just don't look quite right. Like, I think of the movie with Tom Hanks and Tom Hanks and Tom Hanks and Tom Hanks.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:12]:

It's the Christmas movie. You know the one I'm talking about, where every character is played by Tom Hanks.

Dave Jackson [00:05:17]:

Tom Hanks.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:18]:

The Polar Express. Okay, so when that was released, I.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:22]:

Was all into 3D animation, computer generated animated movies, because Pixar was a big thing and Pixar was like, the only studio releasing these. And then some of these other studios came along and started doing CG as well.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:36]:

And the Polar Express was heralded in.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:39]:

The computer generated animation community as this.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:43]:

Is going to be the most realistic to date. I watched that and it just looked creepy.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:50]:

We call it the uncanny valley where.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:54]:

Subtle gestures and subtle movements and muscles of the face and little details like hair and the beards or the glistening glow of skin oil, certain things like that just missing. And it did not look right. It looked is something's not right here?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:06:12]:

I can't quite place my finger on.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:06:13]:

It, but something doesn't look right.

Dave Jackson [00:06:15]:

Yeah, it's like it looks realistic but not real. And yeah, I'm with you on that. I was like, is this a cartoon? No, it's not Rudolph. So it's not 3D animation. It's something, but what is it? It's like some weird mix of all the above. Yeah, I could see that and it'll be interesting. I've already caught I know there is I won't say who, but there's a post that still exists talking about, should I join a podcast network? And they say how podcasting has had a discovery problem since the I'm like.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:06:55]:

Hey, you know what it did.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:06:57]:

Nobody was discovering podcasts in the 90s.

Dave Jackson [00:07:01]:

So that's one where I'm like, that's where AI I kind of go, yeah, maybe a little testing there. I don't know. But I know Todd Cochrane has been using I think it's the journey one you mentioned mid journey to make artwork. And it's one of those things where I wonder, like, when you hear whatever, America's Got Talent or something like that, and some little kid will walk out and they're seven years old, and you're like, wow, did you hear that kid sing? But there's a part of you that's going for a seven year old, that kid is really, really good. And so I wonder sometimes when we look at these and I know that they're AI generated that, I go, wow, that's really good. And in my head, I'm not saying it out loud, but I'm thinking for AI. And I don't know, because some of them, like you said, some of it is really, like, just the colors and the blends and the shading. I was like, yeah, I couldn't do that, so it's already better than me.

Dave Jackson [00:08:02]:

And all I had to do was type in some words and do a few tweaks, and next thing you know, you got something that I couldn't have done. And so it is better than me. But is it realistic or is it real or is it that typical AI where it gets you 80% to 90% of the way there?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:22]:

Yeah, and I think the image generation stuff can be really good.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:27]:

I've seen and played with some that are really good and do look like actual photographs.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:32]:

Nice.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:33]:

But so many of them, you start to look at the details and you start to notice, wait, that line isn't straight. Those things should be aligned. The windows on that building are crooked. Certain stuff like that, that stands out to me.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:43]:

Like, if you have a shadow that is not actually physically possible behind a.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:49]:

Product, I will notice that was something that a little side tangent here.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:54]:

When I started my first job as.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:55]:

A designer here, I was actually still in high school, joining this team of designers who had years of experience beyond me. But one of the first things I said to them when they would listen to me is, I said, guys, all.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:08]:

Of your shadows are wrong.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:10]:

If you're putting this shadow at this.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:12]:

Angle behind this book, then the only way for that shadow to exist like that is if the book is sitting.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:19]:

On a 45 degree angle surface and.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:21]:

Somehow not falling off.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:23]:

That's what the shadow is.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:24]:

So it's those kinds of things, the.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:26]:

Details really bother me on some of these things.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:28]:

So the reason why I mentioned all.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:29]:

Of these image things is that's something I think we can really relate to as we've seen bad images, we've seen things that just don't make sense, whether it's kids drawings, which yeah, like you.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:42]:

Said, oh, that's really good for a seven year old. My little boy has started drawing some.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:45]:

Stuff and I've been impressed with, wow.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:47]:

I didn't know you knew how to draw that. That's really cool.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:51]:

I'm really proud of him for his stuff and I show it off and everything, but it's not going to be a stock photography thing asset that I'll sell. So with the images, it's easy for.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:10:00]:

Us to recognize with written content or spoken content, not so much. And that's where I feel like AI is more the threat is when podcasting are using it because they're lazy.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:10:15]:

And so the premise that I started to get into before we got on.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:10:20]:

Some little tangent is how should we feel about letting there be potentially so much bad content, bad quality content? I don't mean that we need to police it, but is this a threat within podcasting? Again, not an existential threat. Exit.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:10:47]:

That's like a brexit exit. I can't even say the word anymore. Maybe AI.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:10:53]:

I'm talking like GPT right now. But that kind of thing is not going to kill podcasting because we've had.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:11:00]:

Bad quality podcasts for years.

Dave Jackson [00:11:03]:

Anchor, anyone?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:11:04]:

Exactly. Yeah.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:11:05]:

So it's kind of like I feel.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:11:07]:

Like I wonder if AI generative AI has the potential to be the new.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:11:14]:

Quote, anchor of podcasting, unquote, and just.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:11:18]:

Polluting the industry with horrible stuff.

Dave Jackson [00:11:24]:

Yeah, it's going to be interesting because I know I bounce back and forth from a bunch of them. Usually I'm using Cast of Magic, I'll play with Cap Show and it's always interesting when they have something to post on, say, LinkedIn and it's 80% emoji. It's just, hey guys, there's a new awesome episode, it's blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I understand that it's marketing and I understand that maybe that's not my strong suit, but I'm like just to see a bunch of emojis come out of a Dave Jackson post. I feel that anybody who knows me is going to go, okay, I see Dave found the AI tool because it just doesn't even though all that is somewhat based on the transcript, when it comes to marketing, that's where many of them lean into just tried and true marketing speak. And if that's not something you're used to doing, it is going to sound different. But I just remember laughing because it was literally like every fifth word had an emoji and I was like, yeah, I'm not using that.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:12:29]:

Yeah. And all of the AI outputs I've seen for some of the social posts where I've had it generate new content, it's seemed like it's always started with hey, podcasters and some emoji in there. And so now, whenever I see that on Twitter, or formerly known as Twitter.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:12:47]:

I think, oh, you must be using an AI.

Dave Jackson [00:12:50]:

Yeah, I think we will, because they all seem to have somewhat of a it's not a template, but they have their own style. And I think eventually, as soon as I see somebody, not to get on a tangent, but when I hear somebody say I'm in the top 1%, I know they're talking about listen notes. So in the same way, if I see somebody with 50 emojis and three sentences, I'm going to be like, okay. Or like you said, hey, podcasters. So I think that's going to be the test is will we be able to decipher the real stuff from the fake stuff?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:13:26]:

Well, what this comes to and you've.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:13:29]:

Said, say that thing that you have often said about AI stuff.

Dave Jackson [00:13:34]:

Well, that it gets you about 80% of the way there. Yeah, but for me, I'm not anti AI. By the time I clean it up, I could have probably just typed it myself. I like it to, like you've mentioned, as an assistant, sometimes, especially for titles, I will brainstorm and I won't use any of their titles, but I'll take some of that and that one and this one and come up with my own title based on the ten they gave me that were meh. And then I'll come up with one that I think is better.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:07]:

And do you think AI will get worse?

Dave Jackson [00:14:10]:

That's the thing. Everybody always says, hey, this is really good right now, but it's only going to get better from here. And I'm like, is it?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:20]:

Well, that is true from multiple perspectives.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:24]:

Because they'll train the algorithms better, they'll feed more content, updated content into it and everything.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:31]:

But one of the things to think.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:33]:

About, especially if you're using AI to.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:35]:

Generate content for you, like written content.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:38]:

That you then turn into a podcast.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:40]:

Episode, is that the way the AI works? Is it's not really copying and pasting content from the Internet? It has learned how to write sentences that grammatically make sense.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:58]:

And often even I don't know how.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:02]:

You describe it, but even the concept conceptually will make sense.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:07]:

But I like the term they use for it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:09]:

The AI can also hallucinate where it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:11]:

Can say something that is just outright.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:14]:

Wrong, but it makes total grammatical sense.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:18]:

It makes conceptual sense, but it's just outright wrong. Like, yeah, podcasting has had a discovery.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:24]:

Problem since the 1990s that makes conceptual.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:27]:

Sense, if you don't know about the podcasting industry, makes grammatical sense.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:32]:

So my concern is that basically what this is doing is AI is recycling. It's creating content based on how it has recycled and learned based on what's already out there. So the point I'm making is that AI is essentially the Taco Bell of content. They're not creating anything new.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:55]:

Dave has lost.

Dave Jackson [00:15:59]:

It. It's not bad in a pinch when you're in a hurry. Sure it is. It's the Taco Bell. I love that. Continue.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:07]:

And there's nothing new from AI. It's just remixing everything it already has.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:14]:

Like Taco Bell is the same basic.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:16]:

Ingredients just mixed in a different way with some other term. That's what AI is doing. And yes, every few years they'll update.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:25]:

Its model, give it more content, make.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:28]:

It get better at this stuff. But what AI can't really do, especially.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:34]:

The written content, I mean the image stuff is better at creating something new.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:39]:

Because you can describe something that you.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:41]:

Want it to create and it starts just trying to figure out what to make it look like.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:45]:

But written content has more of a.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:48]:

Structure to it than an image does.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:50]:

And that content because of language. The AI isn't going to give you a new idea.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:01]:

It might give some things that might.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:03]:

Seem new, but the point is it's not going to sit there and philosophize about something and come up with a.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:12]:

New idea, a new way to podcast, a new way to communicate this particular thing. It's basically remixing everything it already knows.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:21]:

And applying all of this knowledge that it has. And yeah, sometimes producing some really great outputs, but it's not actually making anything new.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:31]:

It kind of reminds me of in the book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible, it's frequently repeating this phrase, everything is.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:39]:

Vanity and there's nothing new under the sun.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:42]:

That phrase comes from the book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible. And that's kind of what AI really.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:47]:

Is doing, is it's not creating anything new.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:50]:

And so my concern here is that.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:53]:

Even if podcasters good, podcasters use it to generate content or to help them come up with content. What I worry is that it's going.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:18:05]:

To be a lot of mediocre content.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:18:08]:

And a lot of podcasting, a lot of good podcasters out there might realize, hey, this looks good, but not realizing that they're missing themselves in the content. They're not actually creating something new like they were before. They're just remixing.

Dave Jackson [00:18:29]:

Mean think I was laughing. I'm still stuck on Taco Bell. But I remember one of the new things was this new whatever chalupa or whatever. But the big new thing was they added doritos to it. That was it. We've crunched up a bunch of doritos and stuck it in a taco or something. And it's the epitome of like, well, we're just going to grab whatever's around and stick it in there and call it new and it's just not. But you talk about that.

Dave Jackson [00:18:59]:

I'm reading a book right now by Bert Weiss called listenable, the Content and Delivery System to Set Your Podcast Apart, which is kind of what we're talking about. I'm about three chapters in and he said some really good stuff. But one of the things he said, because it's all about standing apart, he said, you don't want to be liked, you want to be loved. You want to be that person's favorite podcast. And if we're all kind of just regurgitating beans, it's the same old chalupa. It's just a different piece of artwork that was AI generated. And that's where I think that's one of the strengths that we need to lean into, but also is also the most scary when you inject your personal story or you try to inject just any part of your life into it. Well, now I'm putting myself out there.

Dave Jackson [00:19:50]:

What if they don't like it? Well, it's hard not to take that personal. But I think in the end, if everybody is just making another chalupa, you're going to stand out even more. I'm with you. I think the threat is people going, they'll read it. I'm in a hurry. It's good enough. I'll just riff on this little outline that AI spit out and call it a day. And that will create a lot of mediocre content.

Dave Jackson [00:20:25]:

I grew up in the 80s. There would be one band that would hit, and then there'd be four bands that looked and sounded exactly like them. And they never were as good because the copy is always worse than the original.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:20:43]:

There was a movie several years ago.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:20:45]:

With Bruce Willis surrogates, where everyone in.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:20:50]:

The future has this robot version of themselves. And it's that robot version that goes out and interacts in the world. And pretty much everyone is stuck in their house, in their little virtual headset, in their own rooms, and they only get up to use the restroom. Or some of them maybe just have.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:21:09]:

That all mounted onto them in their chair.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:21:12]:

And they just live this way. They live virtually through these things.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:21:16]:

But in the movie, everyone is attractive. Everyone has perfect skin, smooth, no blemishes whatsoever, no beads of sweat, none of this stuff. Everyone just has perfect bodies because it's all fake. And there's this really I think it's.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:21:36]:

A beautiful moment in the movie where Bruce Willis's character is he keeps having to interact with his wife through the surrogate, which is the robot thing.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:21:46]:

And even when he gets out of.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:21:49]:

His system, he's still interacting with his wife's surrogate.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:21:53]:

And there's this moment where he's angry and he says something like, I love the woman in that room. And he points to the room where she actually is not the fake her.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:05]:

Right in front of her. And the reason I bring this up.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:09]:

Is this is what it kind of.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:11]:

Feels like in podcasting, even if we.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:13]:

Look at what AI can do with existing content.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:16]:

So, like, I've been hitting hard on generative AI.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:19]:

It's generating new content.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:20]:

What I worry about, even with if we use AI too much, rely on.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:25]:

It too much to fix content, is.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:29]:

That we're going to get a world.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:31]:

Of fakely, beautiful content where everything is just so pristine and so perfect and there are no problems. And I'm not one of those who says, hey, publish your episode without any editing whatsoever. We've made a few mistakes in this episode. We're leaving them in.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:53]:

My stumble over I can't say it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:55]:

Again, we're leaving it in. And because sometimes the mistakes are not.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:01]:

Only what help make us human, but give us a human connection with people.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:05]:

It gives us a moment to laugh.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:07]:

To be like, yeah, that's a funny word to try and say, or we make some joke about, or we just.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:13]:

Roll with it and keep going. We don't have to edit out every single breath and every single um, and we don't have to be perfect.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:20]:

Now, on the flip side, it is.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:22]:

Good to remove the distractions, but not remove every single tiny little imperfection and blemish.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:30]:

And I worry that AI is taking.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:32]:

Us that direction where content is going to feel, again, so refined that it's fake. And some of us are going to be the Bruce Willis out there saying, no, I want that person, the real.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:47]:

Person, that's locked away in the other room, not this fake person that's out here giving me only their best side that's been enhanced by AI.

Dave Jackson [00:23:55]:

Have you ever seen a live talk by somebody and you're dying to hit the 1.25 speed?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:24:01]:

Yes.

Dave Jackson [00:24:02]:

So that's my worry, I guess, in a way. And the other one is I type I sit at a keyboard all day, and I was at an event and somebody asked to buy one of my books and then they wanted me to autograph it and I had to write. And my handwriting is hideous at this point because I haven't actually written anything in months, probably. I mean, I used to sign my signature on a check. When's the last time you wrote a check?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:24:28]:

Right?

Dave Jackson [00:24:29]:

So either A, I need to, I don't know, start journaling with a pen and paper. But that's the other thing, is if we have AI clean up everything for us when we actually talk in person, we're all going to look like idiots.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:24:45]:

Yeah, that's the other thing. I don't want to miss that point.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:24:49]:

Actually, when I even answered that, yes, sometimes I wish I could speed up how quickly people talk.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:24:54]:

It's because some people are just really slow talkers, right? And it's not a pod speeding thing. It's just, can you talk a little.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:25:05]:

Bit faster, please, for this young guy? But actually when I see someone in.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:25:11]:

Person or even hear them live streaming, if I can see them, it really feels like if I see them talking, then I'm totally okay with one X Speed.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:25:21]:

Even though I listen to almost everything at two to 2.5 X with Smart Speed enabled except for certain things like comedy or certain things like that. Don't hate me, Adam Curry.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:25:34]:

But that kind of thing.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:25:38]:

Taking the AI approach, if your AI or whatever your workflow is, make you.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:25:44]:

Sound like you have the voice of angels and then people meet you in person and that is not actually who you are, right?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:25:53]:

What's the impression, then, you're giving your audience?

Dave Jackson [00:25:56]:

That's a great the. What I consider one of my nicest compliments I've ever received is I got to meet one of my co hosts, Jim Cullison, for the first time. I think it was at Podcast Movement, and we were hanging out for a bit, and he said, man, he goes, you know what's really cool? And I go, what? He goes, you are exactly the same in person as you are when we record a show. And I took that as a compliment because I don't want people to go, well, that Dave guy was a total weenie when I met him. In person. Know, stupid or like, I want people what you hear is what you get. I've had somebody once, if you've ever listened to the feed, the host, Elsie Escobar, is I always say, if you cut her, she will bleed. Compassion or sunshine, one of the two, maybe a mix, but she has a very fun, bubbly personality.

Dave Jackson [00:26:44]:

And I had somebody once, I said, oh, she just listened to the feed. And he goes, oh, I can't take that woman. She's so fake. And I go, that's 100%. She's not faking that at all. He's like, Nobody can be that happy. And I'm like Elsie Can. And so that's, again, what you want people to get when they meet you in person.

Dave Jackson [00:27:02]:

They want you to be exactly like you are on the podcast. And if the AI tools have made you, like you said, no imperfections at all, and then all of a sudden like, well, I thought Dave was cool, but I met him, and he's a blabbering idiot. That would be bad.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:27:20]:

And I'm not anti AI. I use and really enjoy some multiple AI tools. Some of them we've mentioned. Here one way maybe to look at it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:27:30]:

Is it's like the salt and pepper.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:27:31]:

Of food, or it's like makeup or sugar or some of these things where maybe a little bit makes things taste a little bit better, look a little bit better, anything like that. Just like when you're on public stage, you need to be a little bit.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:27:46]:

Bigger than life in the podcast, I'm a little bit bigger than real life.

Dave Jackson [00:27:50]:

Right?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:27:51]:

And we use lights when we live.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:27:54]:

Stream, and we use nice microphones.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:27:56]:

And this isn't about hiding anything or not being transparent or not being authentic.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:01]:

No.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:02]:

Authenticity is a choice. It's not something just on the outside. It's a choice of how you engage with people.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:09]:

And AI can have some great potential to do that makeup to add a little bit of spice, to fix a.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:17]:

Few things here and there. I'm loving what some of the new AI based audio improvement tools are doing.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:25]:

Already, a phonic was really good, and.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:28]:

When they added some AI, some more AI powered stuff to it, it's gotten a whole lot better. Or you look at, like, Adobe Podcast, which is pretty much as close to.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:38]:

A single button feature that you can get. It does some really impressive stuff and.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:45]:

Other tools out there doing some really good things.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:47]:

I hope this doesn't enable Laziness, where it's the classic.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:52]:

And I think podcasters have struggled with this for years, where they just say.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:55]:

Oh, we'll fix that in post. That's it then.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:57]:

Now they're saying, oh, the AI will just fix that for us. It's no problem.

Dave Jackson [00:29:01]:

The old musician know. What do the engineers say to Britney Spears? That was awful. Get in here because we'll just fix it. So, yeah, that could be a kind of again, just from a music standpoint, but it's still entertainment. There are a lot of people now that are making songs that don't sing. It's called, I think, a Vocoder, but it makes you sound like a robot. The biggest one you've ever heard her auto Tune share with Do You Believe in Love. There was all sorts of weird things going on that enhanced her voice that weren't really her.

Dave Jackson [00:29:42]:

So that'll be the next thing. We'll have auto tune in podcasting, right?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:29:49]:

Or the auto remover.

Dave Jackson [00:29:53]:

I spoke in a giant room, so there was just tons of reverb and I recorded it and I ran it through. I think it was Adobe. And I think some of these are actually doing the trick where when it gets so bad, they try to reproduce your voice. And there were times that because there was just, I mean, really long, really loud reverb on this thing and it was trying to remove it, but in the process of removing it, it was taking out parts of my voice and then sticking something in that didn't sound like me at all. And it had some really weird timing. So, again, that's one of those things where AI can be helpful, but it does have its limits at can't. Just in that case, it might have been better to type up my speech and just let something Robo Dave just read it than try to clean up a really bad audio recording I think probably would have been a better representation of me in that case.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:30:55]:

Yeah. And I do certainly love what AI.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:30:59]:

Enables podcasters to do that they couldn't do before, and quality that they don't have the skill to achieve yet. Like with some of that audio cleanup where maybe they're just in a situation where they can't improve their production workflow. But like Ophonic, we've used a Phonic for years. Only recently do they have an affiliate program, but we've recommended it long before their affiliate program came out because we're ethical like that. And that's one of those things where, yeah, garbage in, garbage out, but the.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:31]:

Better you put into it, the better you get out from it. So these kinds of tools are a lot better.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:37]:

And I don't want a podcaster out there thinking that, oh, you're saying that.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:42]:

I shouldn't use AI at all.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:44]:

And so, okay, I'm going to make my cover art in Microsoft Paint from Windows 95 since I can't use AI.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:50]:

No, use something to make something unique.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:53]:

High quality, that looks like it was made by a human, that sounds like it whatever reads like it, but don't get lazy.

Dave Jackson [00:32:01]:

Yeah, I guess that's the question. When do I use it and when do I not use it?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:07]:

Right.

Dave Jackson [00:32:07]:

And I guess that's it when you're having it do something. Because I could see people arguing, well, if it can do something as good as I can, why shouldn't I just sit back, know, watch another Friends rerun or Seinfeld, and let it do it for me? Is that being lazy? I mean, I could do it, but I can also get back some time if I let it do it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:29]:

Yeah, if it's a productivity tool, I think it's great. And there have certainly been times where.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:34]:

I've needed to write something and I.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:37]:

Sat down and I was staring at.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:39]:

A blank page and I used AI to give me the first two sentences.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:45]:

And then I wrote 15 pages myself.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:48]:

Yeah, that gave me the momentum to get started making my own unique content written totally in my voice. And it might have taken longer for.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:58]:

Me to get that momentum going without the help of the AI.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:02]:

And the AI made such a tiny percentage of it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:06]:

And maybe along the way, the AI helped me improve some of the grammar.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:09]:

But that's just fixing some of those blemishes, not making it perfect or completely.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:15]:

Generating it from scratch. Or I mentioned this in the previous episode, the way that Jim Collison said it. He's your co host from Ask the Podcast coach. He said something about how some of these people out there seem to be looking for what magical?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:27]:

Three words can I enter for the.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:29]:

AI to then generate an entire book for me? That's not what we should be doing. And I think that our audience here you listening, you're not that type. So I do not think that you are the lazy type with your podcast.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:42]:

These are merely concerns, things to watch out for.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:46]:

And that I think as podcasters, we.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:50]:

Can encourage each other to use the.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:52]:

Tools better and for the right things.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:33:55]:

And while also inspiring each other to say, hey, you don't have to rely on this. You are special just the way you are. The magic has been inside you all along.

Dave Jackson [00:34:08]:

I grew up with a guy named Barnaby on one of the local channels, and he would end his show going, there's no one else in the world like you, just you. So it was very much the same. Where was your reference from?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:21]:

Oh, it's like every Disney movie.

Dave Jackson [00:34:25]:

All right, well, meanwhile, in the world of boostagrams, daniel, did we get any boostagrams since our last episode?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:32]:

We did.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:32]:

This is from Brian from relaxedmail.com.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:35]:

He said, Guys, thank you for helping.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:37]:

Us understand the wonderful world of Podcasting 2.0.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:40]:

And he sent us two.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:42]:

Two SATS, often called a Row of Ducks.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:46]:

Or I like to think of it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:47]:

As the March of the Rubber Duckies.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:49]:

Which, if you go to our notes@futureofpodcasting.net for this episode, we'll put in there my own computer generated image march of.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:34:59]:

The Rubber Duckies that you can enjoy. So I'm going to call it the March of the Rubber Duckies Donation. Other people call it the Row of Ducks.

Dave Jackson [00:35:07]:

And you can find Brian@relaxedmail.com. It's all about being a male without being it's always fun listening to Brian explain his show, because on one hand, if you say you're a male, some people are like, oh, so this is big. Macho, machete. No, no, it's just you have to go check it out.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:35:24]:

There.

Dave Jackson [00:35:25]:

That's a nice can't. I don't know how to explain it. You have to go hear it to check it out. So relaxedmail.com. Thanks, Brian, for the row of what is it? The March of the March of the Rubber Duckies. Excellent. And I think that is going to do it for episode 29. If you have a favorite AI tool or insight into something you're doing, you're like, oh, I use it for this or that, and it's perfect.

Dave Jackson [00:35:49]:

Definitely let us know futureofpodcasting.net or throw it in a boost. We'd love to get those. So I think that'll do it for episode 29. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you again real soon with another episode of the Future of Podcasting.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:36:03]:

Keep boosting and keep podcasting.